The SoCon championship

Re: The SoCon championship

Postby Cujo » Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:03 pm

I appreciate your positive perspective. I don’t know that I agree that the program was/is improving. I thought the 20 win season was a bit over sold last year. Talk to me about improving when we finish in the top 4 and key contributors don’t transfer at the end of the season.
In an imperfect world, absolute truth is divisive. There's no unity in truth. Decide then whether truth before unity or unity before truth?
Cujo
 
Posts: 10006
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:34 am

Re: The SoCon championship

Postby Smurf » Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:07 pm

BigDog, you are welcomed to stay. Obviously that is your choice. Just know that if you say something of which some may disagree they may counter your viewpoint just as some pay counter my viewpoint if they disagree with what I post. It's not an issue of being welcomed or unwelcomed. It's just the perspective. It's certainly not personal.
BOE.
Smurf
 
Posts: 4890
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 4:17 pm
Location: Durham, NC

Re: The SoCon championship

Postby SU DOG » Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:27 pm

Just a few of my thoughts.

HCSP - I tend to give him a pass for this year with the injuries we had. Yes, the defense was pathetic, and we must see far better in the future, but we probably will. A kid has to really "buy-in" to play good defense, and some of our kids might not have been totally bought in to the school and team. Whatever the reason, better D and better decisions with the ball will have to be coached. Those things are easier with a full roster.

Recruiting - There is NO doubt but that this area has greatly improved. I'm optimistic about the kids inked already. I can tell you that getting GOOD instate players(and we have PLENTY of great ones in this state) is a very positive thing for our program. Jimmy did NOT work the HS coaches in Alabama like he should have, as he and Kelly just did not relate well to them. In his later years he had the same lack of initiative that I attributed to Pete in football. Four of our 5 starters this year were from this state. Although it didn't work out by the record, there are many obvious benefits.

Transfers - This is not a one-sided issue. Look at the number of xfers that CAME to us on the roster this year. Also, can we really point a finger at Walker since he has finished up his academics and is being lured by P5 programs? Loyalty is one thing, but IMO, NO, I can't condemn his decision. Admittedly, I have no idea about Chambers.

Intangibles - Scott is highly regarded across the country. I've heard him on media in Colorado, Kentucky, and many times locally. This doesn't put balls thru the net, but certainly helps get our name out there.

Maybe I've said nothing, but again just some thoughts. Stats are important in arguments/discussions, but so are other points and opinions. I can remember when some on here were even ready to drop football. :lol: Let;s just take a deep breath and enjoy some baseball and spring football.
SU DOG
 
Posts: 6683
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 8:30 pm

Re: The SoCon championship

Postby Cujo » Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:40 pm

The defense has been pathetic since Bennie arrived. It wasn’t a 17/18 thing, it’s been a consistent thing. Players buying in to play defense is coaching. So, I’m afraid that is an indictment.
In an imperfect world, absolute truth is divisive. There's no unity in truth. Decide then whether truth before unity or unity before truth?
Cujo
 
Posts: 10006
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:34 am

Re: The SoCon championship

Postby AP » Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:36 pm

OK, if you want to talk facts, let's do that:
BigDog99 wrote:You guys do realize how bad this program has been for a long time. Go look at the last 6 years of JT’s tenure.
That was, literally, the precise context of my post.
BigDog99 wrote:The program had got better each year until this year when 2 starters went down early in the season.
No, it didn't. We have had persistent problems getting stops. We have had persistent problems with culture and transfers. We have had persistent problems getting league wins, especially after the league saw us the first time. We don't beat teams that are more talented than we are. We sometimes lose to teams with less talent. That's not a sustainable recipe for success at Samford.
BigDog99 wrote:No team in our league could have survived that kind of loss.
Probably true.
BigDog99 wrote:We also had lesser injuries that cost us games from Sharkey, Thompson, & Peters(who we lost for the season late).
True. This team was snakebit.
BigDog99 wrote:You guys please tell me what is there about SP that isn’t a good fit for Samford.
I like Scott. I just think he needs to do a better job of some combination of the following: recruiting guys who are loyal to him or the school (preferably both); evaluating players for character traits that lead to better outcomes for the kid, the school, and the basketball team; being smart with roster management and not using transfer band-aids; coaching and teaching defense; creating a culture that leads to positive outcomes in basketball; and creating a relationship-based leadership environment, not a transactional one. When the coach is transactional in his relationships with players, don't be surprised when the players are transactional in their relationships with the coach.
BigDog99 wrote:This is a program that wasn’t going to be turned around overnight & 1 season with injuries to this magnitude should not lead to this much negativity.
Not an accurate representation of the argument being made. Scott was the #1 assistant for Bennie Seltzer, and he was picked by the AD. He helped create a problem that he's been asked to solve. That made no sense, and we're six years in to THE BEGINNING (TM). Everyone in that building has had plenty of time to be accurately evaluated and held accountable.
BigDog99 wrote:Mike Young who I believe most people on this board would agree is a good Coach. Checkout his 1st 4 years he was 48-67 41.7%. His 1st winning season came in his 7th year. His record through his 1st 7 years was 88-106 45.4%. In his 8th year he won the 1st of his 4 SoCon Championships. I would say where that program was when he took over & where our program was when SP took over was very similar as far as history goes but the train wreck that SP took over from BS made this a very tough turnaround.
Mike Young was an assistant at Wofford for 13 years before he was head coach. He helped take that program from D2 to D1 independent to SoCon member to the NCAA Tournament multiple times. We've been through the conference transition stuff on this board long before you started posting, and my feelings have been made known. We went through three leagues in a decade--each of which was progressively harder than the others. So that's not a fair comparison unless you want to add that decade of transitions that we went through before anyone currently involved with Samford basketball at present was involved. Mike Young builds loyalty among his guys to the point where they want to come back to the program when their eligibility is done, not where they want to dip out at the first sign of trouble or opportunity to move up. "I knew Mike Young. Mike Young was a friend of mine. And, Senator, you're no Mike Young." You don't want to compare Scott to Mike Young. It's not fair to him.
BigDog99 wrote:Throw into account the kids now a days leave when they are getting playing time & try to go higher it is tough to build.
Then recruit a different type of kid and develop them. Don't give me "kids these days." Tyler Hood and Brandon Hayman played for three coaches and were loyal to Samford. Don't run loyal kids off. Build with them. Just because you didn't recruit a kid, when you're on the staff and the Samford name is on their chest, they're your players then. This is the culture the staff and administration built. Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind and stuff.
BigDog99 wrote:Wofford, UNCG, UTC, Mercer, ETSU all spend way more on their programs.
We've spent about 2x on basketball during THE BEGINNING (TM) than we did before it. Am I wrong?
BigDog99 wrote:I’m done, ready for the hate to spew now.
There's no hate here. Don't act like this is a personal attack on you--unless you're Martin or Scott or someone. If you are, then you probably ought to be spending your time doing other stuff than board-related propaganda.

BigDog99 wrote:I talked about how this program has never good & it was going to take time to turnaround.
You don't want to say that. That's false. We have had top 4 league finishes plenty of times, two NCAA Tournament appearances, and an All American + conference players of the year. None of that happened in the past six years. We had to shell out some extra cash to let Scott have a chance at a 20-win season. The athletic department was juking the stats for an appearance of success.
BigDog99 wrote:we should give someone who had 3 straight improving seasons leading into this year
Our KenPom ranks while Scott was on staff leading up to this season: 293, 321, 293, 221, and 166. Better. Not good.
BigDog99 wrote:I also didn’t hear anybody answer the question about what are we really doing that suggests “basketball over everything” or BOE.
We doubled the budget and gave the staff unprecedented freedom. I said that originally. You didn't seem to discuss that, unless I missed it.
AP
 
Posts: 4861
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 2:38 pm

Re: The SoCon championship

Postby BigDog99 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:58 pm

Throw into account the kids now a days leave when they are getting playing time & try to go higher it is tough to build.
Then recruit a different type of kid and develop them.

Don't give me "kids these days." Tyler Hood and Brandon Hayman played for three coaches and were loyal to Samford. Don't run loyal kids off. Build with them. Just because you didn't recruit a kid, when you're on the staff and the Samford name is on their chest, they're your players then. This is the culture the staff and administration built. Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind and stuff.

What has SP done that suggests he tried to run a kid off. I would guess with the APR issues we had when he got the job if anything he did everything he could to keep guys here. I think that is a little reckless on your part to make that accusation against SP without somekind of proof.
BigDog99
 
Posts: 49
Joined: Thu May 15, 2014 4:11 pm

Re: The SoCon championship

Postby BigDog99 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:10 pm

I talked about how this program has never good & it was going to take time to turnaround.

You don't want to say that. That's false. We have had top 4 league finishes plenty of times, two NCAA Tournament appearances, and an All American + conference players of the year. None of that happened in the past six years. We had to shell out some extra cash to let Scott have a chance at a 20-win season. The athletic department was juking the stats for an appearance of success.

Our program has been division 1 for 45 years. We have 15 winning seasons ever. That is what I meant about not having a history of being good. We obviously have had some good seasons. Back to back NCAA’s in 98-99 & 99-20. We actually had a run from 92-09 where we consistently hovered around .500. With the an OVC runner-up in 05-06. But what I was trying to say was we have no consistent history of being good & it would take time to build something special. We have 5, 20 win seasons in our division 1 history & you are down playing SP’s 20 win season. Let me ask you this. If they didn’t go to the CIT & he won 19 games is that a bad season?
BigDog99
 
Posts: 49
Joined: Thu May 15, 2014 4:11 pm

Re: The SoCon championship

Postby BigDog99 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:18 pm

BigDog99 wrote:
Mike Young who I believe most people on this board would agree is a good Coach. Checkout his 1st 4 years he was 48-67 41.7%. His 1st winning season came in his 7th year. His record through his 1st 7 years was 88-106 45.4%. In his 8th year he won the 1st of his 4 SoCon Championships. I would say where that program was when he took over & where our program was when SP took over was very similar as far as history goes but the train wreck that SP took over from BS made this a very tough turnaround.

Mike Young was an assistant at Wofford for 13 years before he was head coach. He helped take that program from D2 to D1 independent to SoCon member to the NCAA Tournament multiple times. We've been through the conference transition stuff on this board long before you started posting, and my feelings have been made known. We went through three leagues in a decade--each of which was progressively harder than the others. So that's not a fair comparison unless you want to add that decade of transitions that we went through before anyone currently involved with Samford basketball at present was involved. Mike Young builds loyalty among his guys to the point where they want to come back to the program when their eligibility is done, not where they want to dip out at the first sign of trouble or opportunity to move up. "I knew Mike Young. Mike Young was a friend of mine. And, Senator, you're no Mike Young." You don't want to compare Scott to Mike Young. It's not fair to him.

I was not trying to say SP is Mike Young. What I was trying to say was that administration gave him time & he proved his medal & got things righted. I was saying for us to give SP a chance to do the same.
BigDog99
 
Posts: 49
Joined: Thu May 15, 2014 4:11 pm

Re: The SoCon championship

Postby BigDog99 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:27 pm

BigDog99 wrote:
I also didn’t hear anybody answer the question about what are we really doing that suggests “basketball over everything” or BOE.

We doubled the budget and gave the staff unprecedented freedom. I said that originally. You didn't seem to discuss that, unless I missed it.

You must have info I don’t have if we doubled the budget I haven’t seen those numbers. I do know that we played 6 pay games this year because SP spoke about that in the preseason at the Tip-Off preseason event. Maybe that is where the budget increases are coming from. I would be willing to bet ETSU, Mercer, Chattanooga, UNCG, & Wofford all have bigger budgets than us. No facts on this just a guess. What is the unprecedented freedom this staff has? Again I think your just not happy with how things are going & just throwing this statement out with no proof.
BigDog99
 
Posts: 49
Joined: Thu May 15, 2014 4:11 pm

Re: The SoCon championship

Postby BigDog99 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:36 pm

BigDog99 wrote:
Throw into account the kids now a days leave when they are getting playing time & try to go higher it is tough to build.
Then recruit a different type of kid and develop them.

Don't give me "kids these days." Tyler Hood and Brandon Hayman played for three coaches and were loyal to Samford. Don't run loyal kids off. Build with them. Just because you didn't recruit a kid, when you're on the staff and the Samford name is on their chest, they're your players then. This is the culture the staff and administration built. Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind and stuff.

When I say kids these days, I mean there were 800 transfers last year. That means there are 2.3 transfers per team every year. For the record, even Mike Young who I believe has built a great culture & winning environment had 2 transfers last year, & he’s as good as it gets in our league. I’m just saying that kids these days leave if they’re not playing as freshmen. If they are really good they leave & transfer to HM. Just look across the country. This is a new generation & it starts with kids hopping from 1 AAU team to the next & it continues on to college.
BigDog99
 
Posts: 49
Joined: Thu May 15, 2014 4:11 pm

PreviousNext

Return to The Dog Pound

  • Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

cron