Football Recruiting News

Re: Football Recruiting News

Postby Smurf » Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:49 pm

At what level do we have to recruit to win nine games?
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Re: Football Recruiting News

Postby sudog03 » Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:08 pm

Seeing as it's been done 4 times since 1943, maybe we are due.
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Re: Football Recruiting News

Postby Cujo » Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:08 pm

Interesting perspective. 03, you make a valid point as always. We have not been all that successful. But, I also see your point as an example of why we have not been all that successful. Alabama demands success and expects it. You have to ask yourself, what came first—the demand for success or the success. I would counter that an apologist for why we do not win 9 games is a good for explaining why we have not won 9 games. But, I also see it as the sort of attitude that leads to not winning 9 games. We don’t win 9 games because we don’t win 9 games and we don’t expect to win 9 games and we don’t hold anyone accountable for not winning 9 games. In other words, we are content with not winning 9 games. We do not really “want” to win 9 games, we just like the idea of it. Or, to say it another way, we hit at what we shoot for . . . mediocrity.

Smurf, we have the players to win 9 games. The recruiting is there. The difference between 9 games and 7 games is intangible—either (winning 7 or winning 9) is a systemic cultural thing. 9 game winners and winners of conference championships do not lose to teams in the bottom third of the conference year in year out (i’d say “unexpectedly”, but I expect it now). You win 9 games when you refuse to lose more than 2 games. The idea of losing is intolerable. In other words, you really want to win 9 games when you set about doing what it takes to win 9 games and you tolerate nothing less.
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Re: Football Recruiting News

Postby sudog03 » Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:41 pm

You also make a valid point. Do you feel our football program is given enough resources and priority from the university to hold someone accountable for not winning 9 games, or do those things not matter? It not just because Alabama expects, it's because they devote whatever resources are necessary towards it and they have a once in a generation coach. It doesn't really matter what anyone on this board expects, only the decison makers. I would contend Samford is getting a good ROI given the overall resources and priority put on the football program. Not to mention, who recruits all this talent we supposedly have? (someone please watch the Citadel tape and tell me how talented our defense looked) They just drive by Lakeshore and turn in? :lol:
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Re: Football Recruiting News

Postby Smurf » Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:51 pm

Yes, in absolute terms, we have the talent to win nine games. I say that more based on what I have seen and less on what is yet to come since there will be changes at key positions. However, relative to the quality of the coaching staff, I am not sure we can recruit well enough to win nine games. Our coaches need not only to beat the JSUs and Mercers on the recruiting trail, but they also have to beat themselves. Good coaches only have to beat their adversaries.

If you can't win more than six games with the talent we had last year, I just don't think that this staff is capable of recruiting talent high enough to offset their ineptitude in other areas.

We don't have enough people who care enough about the program enough to hold it accountable and the reason we don't have enough people who care about the program is that we fail to thrive. And we fail to thrive because SU accepts four, five, and six wins seasons. I don't understand how this tacit tolerance of losing is accepted at a university that does so many things well. It's almost as if it is a sin to get pissed off at SU when we fail. The program merely gets a soft word of encouragement, a slap on the back, and a "you'll get em next year" comment That is not how you build for success. Thus, we are reaping what we sew.
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Re: Football Recruiting News

Postby sudog03 » Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:01 pm

Smurf wrote: And we fail to thrive because SU accepts four, five, and six wins seasons. . [/color]


We've averaged 7 wins a season the last 7 seasons. I would love to win a few more, and I would have expected to win more this past season. For me, I just think it's much more important for the university to make it more of a priority than having another coach if we are going to see the program take the next step overall. I'm very hopeful for next season.

Football also has the highest winning percentage against conference teams since entering the SoCon and is the only of our big 3 sports to win a league regular season championship. Baseball has won the tourney a couple of times and T/F has won their conference final.
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Re: Football Recruiting News

Postby Smurf » Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:41 pm

sudog03 wrote:
Smurf wrote: And we fail to thrive because SU accepts four, five, and six wins seasons. . [/color]


We've averaged 7 wins a season the last 7 seasons. I would love to win a few more, and I would have expected to win more this past season. For me, I just think it's much more important for the university to make it more of a priority than having another coach if we are going to see the program take the next step overall. I'm very hopeful for next season.

Football also has the highest winning percentage against conference teams since entering the SoCon and is the only of our big 3 sports to win a league regular season championship. Baseball has won the tourney a couple of times and T/F has won their conference final.


The administration doesn't have to worry about baseball. They take care of business. They win conference titles and make dents in the post season. Casey Dunn I think routinely meets or sometimes exceeds expectations. I don't think anyone here would make a claim that Hatcher has ever exceeded expectations at SU. No complaints here about track and field. The indictment here is about football.

In the past we have allowed football coaches to hang on to their jobs when they were winning at max seven wins a season and often times in the range of five to six. The bottom line is that if averaging seven wins a season and not winning a playoff game is the measure of success, then let's all be content with that I suppose and not demand anything greater. I think you can dig into the minutia and try to find nuggets of success, but for me the measurement is obvious. Are we meeting or exceeding expectations and are we making dents in the post season? The answer to those questions, in my opinion, is no. Take care of those things and conference titles, etc. will generally follow suite.
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Re: Football Recruiting News

Postby sudog03 » Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:15 pm

So Hatcher gets a worse grade because he puts his team in a position where they are predicted to win the league? I'll just have to agree to disagree on that. Casey does a fine job, but his team has never been chosen to win the league or won a regular season title. I have no problem demanding greater things, but for me, I think it's unfair when that demand is not met without equal resources. I mean we didn't even put a bid in for a home playoff game last season, didn't even try, but our coach is expected to win one? Mercer who has never finished above us in the standings, is 1-4 against us since bringing football back, just announced their 2nd new scoreboard since we put one up. Now, supposedly we are getting a scoreboard, but nothing has been announced. I have said that for me, this season was disappointing, and we made mistakes, but we also rallied the troops and won 5 of our last 6 games. It wasn't all doom and gloom.
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Re: Football Recruiting News

Postby Smurf » Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:51 pm

I totally agree that the university has not been fully supportive of football in the way that it should be as it relates to facilities and such. And yes, the administration does bear some of that burden for us not being more successful. I totally agree with you there.

With that being said, from what I have seen, I see some mighty fine talent that has been brought in in spite of the antiquated football stadium, and that talent did not collectively achieve a level of success that it should have; on that we can agree too. Would we have won more had we had a 10,000 seat stadium, a new press box, and a 21st century scoreboard? Possibly, but I don't think that is a definite. We certainly haven't seen much of a bump in the biggest sport that is housed at the Pete Hanna Center since that building was erected. I remember believing at the time that that building would birth us more victories; it has not. By any measure, we screwed the pooch this year in football. I don't think our preseason expectations that were placed on us by the coaches, media, etc. (top 10 ranking, preseason pick to win the SoCon) were made or not made based on our facilities, or lack thereof. They were made based on our talent.
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Re: Football Recruiting News

Postby sudog03 » Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:02 pm

We had a disappointing season. Personally, I'm not sure I'd categorize it as screwing the pooch, but hey, we all got opinions. And yes, people are certainly more important than facilities, but they do matter. And even with those challenges we had our best regular season in 25 years in 2017 and can acquire talent that is capable of winning the league, I think our coaches are due credit for that, just as much as they are criticism for not having the season we all wanted this year. There is talent all over the SoCon, this is not the OVC. We got beat by a team that got the 4th seed in the playoffs on the road, and lost a conference game or two we shouldn't have. But, we are 11-5 in our last 16 conference games, and I think have a very good roster coming back for next season.
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