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Re: Ranking SoCon Football Recruiting

PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:03 pm
by SU DOG
sudog03 wrote:As I have said, we had our issues defensively. Pass defense and 3rd down defense were two of them. But, to think that we weren't competitive defensively and that we were weak against the run just isn't accurate. Also, to think that an offense that is near the bottom in yards per play gained, leads the league in turnovers, and is last in TOP only indirectly affects your defense is also inaccurate, IMO. Bill Dottavio more than deserved an opportunity to get those issues corrected. But, hey we've finally gotten rid of the last coaches on staff that were around the one and only time we won the league and graduated virtually every player signed, while putting players in the league, so let's see how that works out.


Agree with most of this, but I do think we were weak against the run. In conference games, we were 5th against the run and 7th against passing. Yes, the offense does affect the defense. Ages ago I posted a theory called The Spiral Effect, originated by a P5 DC, in which he stated that the Air Raid Offense weakened the defense, and it would continue to spiral downward over time. He went on to say that he would NEVER coach the defense at a school that ran that offense.

It makes me angry that some good coaches and people were let go. Like 03 implied, these guys proved their worth long before Hatcher arrived. Remember that HCCH stated that he wouldn't change the D, with something along the lines of "if it ain't broke don't fix it". He must have changed his mind.

Doing a little research, I found some, to me, very scary stuff. In Hatcher's 5 years at Murray State he had 2 DCs. In that 5th and last year his defense was next to last in the OVC, besting only hapless APSU whose ONLY win that year was over the Racers. The MSU defense allowed 43 points/game. Also in that last year Hatcher's team won ONE D-1 football game. :( After that season, he was named the new HC at Samford University.

Is Samford now headed to have BOTH marque sports doomed to dumpster fire levels?

Re: Ranking SoCon Football Recruiting

PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:20 pm
by SAM1014
The new recruiting class looks good on paper despite the fact we have an unknown defensive staff and our OC is open

Re: Ranking SoCon Football Recruiting

PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:23 pm
by SAM1014
https://www.reddit.com/r/CFB/comments/e ... h_samford/

https://247sports.com/player/jalen-jordan-46086709/

Looks like he originally committed to Akron then decommited then committed to Army then committed to us. Interesting path

Re: Ranking SoCon Football Recruiting

PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:34 pm
by sudog03
Don't worry, I'm sure there are plenty of successful FCS DCs dying to come defend 900+ plays at a church school.

Re: Ranking SoCon Football Recruiting

PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:47 pm
by Smurf
In three of the previous four years we were in the bottom half or bottom third of the league in rushing defense yards per carry I believe. Let's not make this out to be that we haven't had any issues stopping the run over the past few years. Otherwise, I would be somewhat more patient. This year it was the FU game. I also remember the Kenneaw State game. We can agree to disagree on this point, however. I think good points were made by all here.

Regardless of where you stand on this issue of how much defense is to blame, if this was a program under more media/fan base scrutiny the sustained pressure on Hatcher to make defensive changes would have been too enormous to dismiss. Unless Hatcher was winning 10 games a year, his failing to make defensive changes, given some of the issues that have been presented in this thread (whether they be right or wrong) would have cost Hatcher his job. However, schools like us are allowed, by the nature of the business, to give coaches a lot more leeway. Hatcher may have done what Hatcher felt like he needed to do for the program but also for himself. That isn't a slight against him as this is common in sports of course, but I imagine that Hatcher also felt a pressure either from within and/or from without to make changes for the sake of the program. Some may view it as tactical and necessary; some may view it as desperate. Who knows?

I will say this though, Hatcher can make changes, and he certainly has that right, but his first line of defense (no pun intended) has now been dissolved. He can make changes on both sides of the ball, perhaps major changes, but if his new hires do not show improvement there is no one to blame at that point but Hatcher, either for his hiring/firing practices or by the system that he has implemented. The line of sight has now been sharply focused on Hatcher more than it ever has been here.

And lastly, given our offensive style, I do wonder if Hatcher is going to face a real uphill climb in hiring quality defensive coaches. Sure, he can find someone to manage his defense, but can he find a quality coach to manage his defense? Would a quality candidate want this job?

Re: Ranking SoCon Football Recruiting

PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:49 pm
by Smurf
Sam1014 is desperately trying to redirect this thread that we hijacked.

Re: Ranking SoCon Football Recruiting

PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 6:02 pm
by SAM1014
Lol since we dont know who the coaches are I cant really speak about them yet. I'm fine with the changes and I agree with all your points on Hatcher. If we suck again this year and nothing changes then we should move on from our Hatcher experiment.

I was just surprised at some of the players we were able to sign with a staff of uncertainty. Especially Quarles and Paymon. The linebacker who was a former safety could be a game changer for us since our linebackers cant cover. Granted i've watched zero highlights of him and the move could be because he sucks at coverage.

Re: Ranking SoCon Football Recruiting

PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 6:39 pm
by Cujo
I hope the changes were made because he’s under pressure to win. Just win. Coaches getting fired is part of the job. Sometimes getting fired leads to something better. I’m not upset about losing coaches who haven’t won a playoff game. It’s a tough guy job and tough guys have to be tough when the going gets tough, otherwise the toughness weeds out those that don’t wear big boy pants.

Re: Ranking SoCon Football Recruiting

PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 9:00 pm
by sudog03
Agree to disagree. While wins and losses are important and part of the equation for me, I have never supported Samford Athletics to "just win".

Re: Ranking SoCon Football Recruiting

PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 9:18 pm
by Cujo
There are two types of coaches. Those who have been fired and those who will be fired. You get fired, there is another job waiting for you in another town and a whole new set of gear and allegiances. If you don’t get fired, you will fire the team and take a better job somewhere else. It’s a transient business. Everyone knows it going in.